M.Hennicke

Compensation For False-positive Of Trojan.fakealert.5?

421 posts in this topic

Hi all I was also affected by the bad update, I have 1 licence over 3 machines running win 7 64, I was lucky enough that I was able to get windows to repair itself then get the update installed from BD. Tho resorting the quarantined files was a no go cause they had been restored by windows so I am hoping I haven't missed any on the rather large list.

I just lost a day thinking that I had been infected and trying to clean the disk until I put the pieces together and figured out the link.

Edited by McKu

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I request you to read my post carefully. I did not say that there are legal grounds for this. Backup or no backup there has been a mistake from Bitdefender and expect people to have moral responsibility at least. I also acknowledge that this is a human error and it could happen to any software or product but it should not be made an excuse to not respond to the customer panic. Do you mean to say that Bitdefender can get away from after sales service by saying , 'You do not have a backup, therefore we won't help you even though our product has made your Windows unusable?'. You may not be able to take legal action against Bitdefender for malfunctioning but surely there should be some law in place so that one can take action against shoddy service especially in a crisis as important as this.

Let us take a scenario, I had forced my friend to install Bitdefender, luckily she had a 32 bit Vista. She takes online tuition and most of her students are attending exams and if she has missed a session with them it would have been a huge blow to her credibility and also to her students scores. What sort of backup would you expect her to have? It is not only about money. This goes beyond that.

I know that Bitdefender team, though late, has acknowledged this and has promised action. I was in particular responding to L.o.D posts. They say that he is not an insider but it is as if he speaks on their behalf. I was just requesting the team to control this guy because he is doing more damage than the bug itself.

Actually I wasn't just including you in any reference to legal recourse. There seems to be some sort of general assumption that BitDefender should financially recompense customers who have lost data, or, just for the inconvenience. I imagine BitDefender will come up with something, and it might be some form of license extension, but even that loses the company revenue, and the world economic climate being what it is, money lost ain't good when you're trying to keep a company going, and, in this instance, have what I guess is an R&D team keeping up with viruses.

The details of your scenario do not matter. If I lose my machine due to catastrophic disk failure (which has happened more than once), then I need to have some contingency, which I do. More than that, if I run a business, and my PC is an essential tool in running that business, then *I* have a responsibility to ensure that I can carry on if the PC self destructs. This may sounds hard-nosed, but it's the way of the world. The problem is that people never heed advice until it's too late. Let's just hope that people might have learned that their PC is not guaranteed to be available 24/7 forever. Power supplies fail, disk drives fail, RAM fails, graphics cards fail, motherboard etc. It's all part of the mix.

And, believe me, I'm not saying BitDefender are free from blame, and you can be ###### sure someone is getting severely spanked over this. But I feel confident that BitDefender will take a long hard look at themselves after this, and see how this can be avoided again, how their QA processes can be improved, and, equally importantly, learn how to respond to totally unforeseen problems on a large-scale. The latter, particularly, has been poor. There is no mechanism for 'in your face' service status information. If I go to the BitDefender website, I get a large (and out of date!) advert for Mother's Day splashed across the top of the screen. That's where I want to see a service status, not some small hyperlink I have to go looking for on the page.

I 'forgive' them all this, but do so in the knowledge(?) that they cannot/would not let anything like this happen again. If they let me down, then it will be time for me to wave goodbye.

Kieran

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Hello.

I am using Win7 64bit / BIS 2010 and unfortunately I have been affected by the recent "trojan.fakealert.5 false positive issue".

Luckily I managed to restore most of the files and re-installed applications, though it cost me lots of my time and efforts.

And still I am not sure that all my applications will work as intended, so I will have to spend even more time to test them for possible issues.

I am using BitDefender products for a few years already and was satisfied by them so far, though I consider this major failure as unacceptable.

I assume that there should be some form of compensation provided by the company to users affected by this issue.

I consider free renewal of license for the next year as a somewhat acceptable compensation for myself.

I hope that this fault will be a good lesson for the company and it will never happen again.

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After using bit defender for many years and recommending it to every person that brought their computer to me to fix I have become very disappointed in the quality of this AV program. This latest version seems to randomly crash and require a restart to get it working again every once in a while. Back in the early 90's I was a huge Nortons fan until they got bloated and resource hungry with useless junk addons and sub par AV protection. After that I moved on to McAfee and they ended up going down the same road, I love a simple AV program that just works all the time and a few years ago you have just that. This company has to me shown themselves to be an excellent team but seem to be losing sight of what the people want from them. We want solid AV protection that we can count on, I praise you every time one is caught trying to slip between windows cracks.

As for compensation I would like you to once again offer a simple and effective AV program that just works, you guys had it right but then you meddled with your recipe and upset alot of people. I am a very experienced with repairing computers so it wasn't hard to get back up and running just frustrating to have to fix everything and reinstalling all the programs effected. An extended license would keep me some what content but what would make me happy is if you would release slim down versions of your AV software. Seriously all of us that have a brain either have automatic updates on or know to check regularly and we know that 1234 is a crap password, we don't need some AV program telling us this. I don't need to encrypt IM chats on my home PC I don't need help managing my network and I think I can control my own identity lol.

I hope you guys have seen the light we all make mistakes and that's how we learn I have a business myself and I will tell you like I tell all my guys. You get one mistake excused and this was your one now learn from it and don't do it again.

Thank you for your years of protection and I hope many more to come.

BD is rated number 1-2 because it has all these easy to use features, I know my Total security has options to display easy/medium/expert user interface, and I like all the features it has, but I also see where your coming from and having a "light version" with no bells and whistles would be fine for some, but I dont think they would make any money doing that as not many would buy it imo.

BD comes with options to disable alot of the features anyways, I disable what i dont want running, simple and effective.

I also will be continuing with BD, as mistakes like this only better a company, allthough if something like this happened again I would seriously question the company. Who knows anyways, it could have been an employee trying to sabotage BD... who knows.

I did not lose anything myself, and also learnt the hard way through HD failure to keep regular backups of your computer. When my HD died, the company that made it did not give me a free one, or refund of data loss, instead they told me I should keep backups of all files... So i do now, but not on there HD's lol.

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@ Kieran , actually I agree with most of your points. I also agree with most of Tarpy's points

This is what i would like to see happen and also the type of compensation which i think is fair:

1. A public apology by the CEO or Director on this catastrophe.

2. Provide us a d4mn good explanation on how this happened, did your servers got hacked? was it sabotaged? The trojan name itself will not justify a "mistake by our technical team" kinda reason.

3. The person responsible to be brought to justice (fired/caught).

4. And for the compensation, AT LEAST do a refund for the affected customers, this is the bare minimum.

I wouldn't have agreed with the 4th point if a smart virus/trojan had got through Bitdefender and also if their response to this crisis was sound. Sending warning emails frequently in bulk to all their customers is not too tough. They should have had a system in place to do this in a crisis situation. They should have placed a sticky on their support forum with answers to all the queries to this situation. Only the bitdefender staff should have the right to post in the sticky. Ideally they should have had awarning on their homepage or at least an indication where to look for to solve this problem. Maybe they thought that this would scare off new customers. In the process they forgot their existing users, people who helped them reach this position by trusting their product and spreading the message by word of mouth and also through online forums. At least they should have been sympathetic to their own customers by reaching out to them. Instead they allowed people such as L.o.D to run riot and add insult to injury. Mr L.o.D ridiculed the users that they didn't have a backup but his own Bitdefender staff did not have a backup plan or a contingency plan to take care of such a crisis.

They also complained against people posting in this thread, can you believe it? I would like to add one more point to tarpy's 4

5) Bitdefender should reveal what steps they have taken to ensure that such a thing doesn't happen again. Also they should take stern steps to improve their support and regulate their forums better.

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I did have them backed up, on a drive, which was hooked to my computer at the time, which was also deleted by BitDeleter.

And about your first question.

It would have cost them 420$ to do my computer, they told me it was 200$ to do it, and I needed the disk (Which I had to buy)

I LoL'd when you said this, sorry but having a backup external connection kept live on your PC? So if you get Malware, like BD just did to people, you get your backup HD infected as well, do you see where this is going? :o

Backup yes, is great, keeping a live connection to your backup HD is a bad idea, I keep my external backups disconnected to any live PC, that way they dont get infected if an issue should arise.

Your a funny person lol.

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I keep seeing complaints here that people lost data.

Who lost data? What kind of data?

The only type of affected files were executable binaries (dll's, exe's and so on).

No documents or photos were touched. If anyone was "smart" enough to format their disk, then that's their own work, not BitDefender's. You can definitely reinstall Windows on top of the old system, and you find your previous files in separate system/user folders.

So, in the worst case scenario, apart from a few hours spent reinstalling the OS and the applications, are there any real disastrous 2012 Armageddon Independence Day losses?

I'm not saying BD isn't responsible for the mess. but let's be a bit realistic a bit.

I have the feeling that many blow this out of proportion, for them being the worst nightmare they could have ever imagined from a computer.

Like when you watch "The Ring" and then you hear a phone ringing.

Edited by Midnight Rain

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I would like people to own up when they commit a mistake. It is good that the team has acted even if they were late. I am keeping a close eye on the forums for the next few days. Then I will decide whether to continue using Bitdefender or not. I still trust the product and expect it to get better but I am not too sure about its after sales service. If i decide to uninstal Bitdefender, then it won't be because of the Trojan-FakeAlert-5 problem but because of the lack of sympathy the team has shown towards it own customers.

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I would like people to own up when they commit a mistake. It is good that the team has acted even if they were late. I am keeping a close eye on the forums for the next few days. Then I will decide whether to continue using Bitdefender or not. I still trust the product and expect it to get better but I am not too sure about its after sales service. If i decide to uninstal Bitdefender, then it won't be because of the Trojan-FakeAlert-5 problem but because of the lack of sympathy the team has shown towards it own customers.

BD employees have been on the forum 24/7 from the moment the patch was released and before that, trying to keep users up to date with what was going on. I have seen them answering to almost all inquiries. You can see their posts marked with "Technical Support" especially here

Sure, it took about 3.5 hours to rollback the murderous update, but I'm not sure we can say they just stayed on the fence watching.

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for people thinking that other products are infallible take a look at the 'related stories' section on the following page

_http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/22/bitdefender_dodgy_update/

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When this 1st hit me I googled and found that lots of people were having the same problem. I found the thread here dealing with it then I had to scan through all the comments (which were bascially all the same) to find instructions from the tech guys. Found the intructions, followed them, waited for the patch, installed the patch and everything was fine!

Bitdefender is a great product and I think most of the problems (or lack of finding a solution) was due to the countless postings of the same issue so most of you only have yourselves to blame for not taking action sooner. Continuing to rant is not really a solution if the rant has already been made and all this does is bury the solution.

Anyway, as for compensation, extending the licence or a free renewal would be a great start and perhaps some Amazon vouchers?

Gary :D

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I LoL'd when you said this, sorry but having a backup external connection kept live on your PC? So if you get Malware, like BD just did to people, you get your backup HD infected as well, do you see where this is going? :o

Backup yes, is great, keeping a live connection to your backup HD is a bad idea, I keep my external backups disconnected to any live PC, that way they dont get infected if an issue should arise.

Your a funny person lol.

That is what I am saying. One guy stated he "lost" a $4500 project that he was working on for a client.

If I was his client & I already paid him, I would sue him for negligence.

Midnight Rain, that is what I said before when I called the "lack of communication" absurd from some people.

I had asked just HOW people were actually losing personal data & they failed to answer.

What are these people doing? Formatting their machines without a backup first?

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BD employees have been on the forum 24/7 from the moment the patch was released and before that, trying to keep users up to date with what was going on. I have seen them answering to almost all inquiries. You can see their posts marked with "Technical Support" especially here

Sure, it took about 3.5 hours to rollback the murderous update, but I'm not sure we can say they just stayed on the fence watching.

Are L.o.D., Bloke etc Bdefender Employees ?

If so why just dont say so.........

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Are L.o.D., Bloke etc Bdefender Employees ?

If so why just dont say so.........

Since when do forum goers need to be employees to have an observation?

People are claiming a lack of communication when yet BD labs staff have been posting here, mods, virus research staff & tech support have all been posting trying to have people.

Yet there's a lack of communication.

There's a LOT of help from them in my thread that kept getting buried of threats of lawsuits & griping & flamefests.

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Some new articles about the problem

http://www.zdnetasia.com/bad-security-upda...m?tag=mncol;txt

http://www.pcworld.com/article/192000/bad_...indows_pcs.html

Look at the comments on the bottom of the articles looks like bitdefender has lots of time to get on news website to do PR for the company. I just want them to answer my email to get my refund so i can buy another program.

There's a LOT of help from them in my thread that kept getting buried of threats of lawsuits & griping & flamefests.

AS for this, people should not be posting they need help in this forum, this is for trying to get compensation from Bitdefender which its has been two days and they still have not offered any kind of refund.

Edited by randy1617

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OK. First I use bitdefender for some years and I'm largely satisfied with it. I also recomended to my friends and known peoples.

I did not lost my faith in it, somehowever I am a bit contraried.

Errare humanum est, but they were (and are) serious PR problems.

The technical advisers were not at the hight of the situation, the forums realised much quicker what's hapenning.

As for compensations, I don't think that it is the case, I'm largelly sure that the company could not suport them.

But being in the Vlad the Impaler's country, some public "look inside, behind the courtins" would be very necesary.

Bitdefender could compensate the pain that this error produced by a very sincere analysis of what had been.

Starting with the source of the error, what testing mistakes permited the false alert to be distributed, why had been so many hours with technical advisers registered on the forum for only some months ... and who had been impaled ... and how.

I will use in the future bitdefender antivirus, but I hope that 20/03 will be a starting point. I'm sick having more and more false alerts, mostly hillarious, new CDs fresh from great software houses being seen as infected, old BAT files also ... it's borring...

The testing department should be totally renewed and the reaction team should have some military drill... let's say some thousand push-up-s would be a good start...

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I had to have my Windows Vista 64 re-installed after trying to reboot in both last known good mode and safe mode (with & without networking) which was the telephone advice. Once they drew a blank (literally - no icons or menu bars at all!) on that I was told it would have to be elevated to the next level and I would be contacted - they took my telephone number. Of course in the next 24 hours I received nothing except a generic reply to my original email before the telephone calls (the first one cut me off after 13 minutes!) which was as useful as a chocolate teapot.

So in the end as I had to have the computer working I got a professional in to re-install WIndows at a cost of £250.00, plus all the additional aggravation of setting up all the little tweaks that I've done over the past year. Also annoying are things like bookmarks on my Safari browser are gone.

So all in all very annoying, a waste of two days, lots of initial worry and a lot of tweaking to get all my preferences back again. Luckily I also have a linux netbook when this happened or would not have been able to get onto the web to find out what was going on at all as this was my only internet enabled desktop computer!

So 48 hours later and no reply from BD - pretty poor show.

I don't do **** or dodgy torrent sites and the anti-virus was there as a failsafe, and how ironic that it was that what killed my computer!

Finally, a quick question. Is it now safe to run live update? I don't want to go through all that again!

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Yes, it's safe. The dodgy update was available for only 3 and a half hours on Saturday.

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Actually I wasn't just including you in any reference to legal recourse. There seems to be some sort of general assumption that BitDefender should financially recompense customers who have lost data, or, just for the inconvenience. I imagine BitDefender will come up with something, and it might be some form of license extension, but even that loses the company revenue, and the world economic climate being what it is, money lost ain't good when you're trying to keep a company going, and, in this instance, have what I guess is an R&D team keeping up with viruses.

The details of your scenario do not matter. If I lose my machine due to catastrophic disk failure (which has happened more than once), then I need to have some contingency, which I do. More than that, if I run a business, and my PC is an essential tool in running that business, then *I* have a responsibility to ensure that I can carry on if the PC self destructs. This may sounds hard-nosed, but it's the way of the world. The problem is that people never heed advice until it's too late. Let's just hope that people might have learned that their PC is not guaranteed to be available 24/7 forever. Power supplies fail, disk drives fail, RAM fails, graphics cards fail, motherboard etc. It's all part of the mix.

This is way different.

Lets put this in another context. You employ a bank to keep your money safe, you would then state that: If a robber comes steal your money or that the bank would be destroyed by an earthquake then ###### happens and your money would be lost and you could not get compensation.

I can buy that in terms computer security systems, despite that for any other company providing a safe keeping service they would be responsible should it fail. But still i can agree to those terms.

But that is not what happened here, let me explain

You employ a bank to keep your money safe. In front of your eyes your bank takes all your money and burn them. There is no doubt it was your bank doing this, in fact they openly admit it.

You mean to say it's still not their responsibility - that in fact its yours? You where stupid enough to trust the company and that your stuff where safe. A company that "Protects against viruses and other malware with industry-leading technology." Just did the exact opposite and they are still not responsible for it?

I don't really have to elaborate on this right? Its just gotta be pretty ###### obvious for anyone.

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There's something you are forgetting.

No one stated that BD was/is not responsible for this screw up.

But the fact still remains that a lot of people did not have any backups of their data/work etc. Or they have a live backup connected to the same machine.

Would you still say BD is responsible for those actions?

I asked the other day exactly how these people were losing data & not one would give an answer.

Why is that?

What about those that enabled an advanced setting & claim they were not responsible for doing so?

Who was responsible for turning something on their own machine?

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They are to blame, but was the direct damage so great?

BD didn't actually delete anything, unless you set the action instead of "move to quarantine" to "delete".

In default mode, all it did was lock files in quarantine. System files, as well. The greatest mistake was restarting the computer with those files still locked. This is the point where mayhem broke loose.

This is just a matter of lack of knowledge concerning how an antivirus works and how an operating system works.

Because had anyone known those were critical files in quarantine, they probably wouldn't have restarted the computer.

My opinion.

Edited by Midnight Rain

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Thankfully 2 of my 3 systems were not up during the fiasco...I just spent several hours getting my laptop back up and running...I will watch closely and see what if any compensation is offered, I feel a extension of the the current license is a fair trade for the hours I lost fixing the screwup..........The 4 previous years with trend micro was never a problem..Bit defender needs to make some jesture to keep me from going back....

Edited by warlord

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@L.o.D

Yep i would. It would be a difference if this was a virus that somehow escaped the system, or if it was a crash unrelated to bit defender where bit defender supposedly would have helped. This is a case of the company destroying your files - nothing else. They will and should reimburse every single thing that they have destroyed(i.e. where it is clear that the customer have followed standard procedure dealing with what was perceived as a virus or following the instructions of the support)

@midnight

http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?sho...amp;#entry81567

Check out my post. This is not the case of ignorance. Most people who got alot destroyed by bitdefender was not ignorant, nor did not take advice from staff or followed their general procedures.

I believe there are a lot of pretty obvious cases here.

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@L.o.D

Yep i would. It would be a difference if this was a virus that somehow escaped the system, or if it was a crash unrelated to bit defender where bit defender supposedly would have helped. This is a case of the company destroying your files - nothing else. They will and should reimburse every single thing that they have destroyed(i.e. where it is clear that the customer have followed standard procedure dealing with what was perceived as a virus or following the instructions of the support)

You make it sound like BD did this on purpose.

Most of you are doing that & it is wrong.

I am NOT saying they are not responsible. But the fact remains that a lot of you are coming off as if they did it on purpose.

Had people NOT formatted & not set BD to auto delete, there would have been no files lost.

They cannot reimburse you for personal data loss such as pictures etc. How do you put a price on that?

You can't.

For those on Vista/Win7, a clean install should have sufficed as it would save the old install to a single folder.

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