M.Hennicke

Compensation For False-positive Of Trojan.fakealert.5?

421 posts in this topic

:D I am going to man up and except full responsibility for my part in the screw up with Bit defender, had I not powered up my Laptop on saturday none of this would have happened...man I feel much better getting rid of the burden of guilt I was living with......I will now send a apology Email to Bit defender asking for their forgiveness in this matter, hopefully they will do the same for the very small part they played in this matter....

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In this Thread, it's all about appropriate compensation from issue of 20 March 2010![/font][/size]

if you have a question to the issue, please post it on http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?showtopic=18759 !

Please let this not out of your frustration, but remains factually....

I think that BitDefender had to compensate all consumers who bought their product for another year free use of their current license key. In the past, some other reputable manufacture of antimalware was affected by false-positive. Many manufacture has make credits or cache-back offers to get losted trust again.

What do you see as reasonable compensation?

I have been a BD user for a number of years and although there have been glitches along the way I've stayed with the product and have promoted it to friends and family. The product has protected my systems well. However, the actions BD takes to remedy this situation will play a large part in maintaining my loyalty and ultimately the long term viability of their enterprise.

I think at the very least there should be a number of remedies available to affected users:

1) Compensation for costs incurred to rectify the problem (receipts required)

2) Full refund for those who are unhappy with product/service and wish to use another product

3) Free licensing for at least an additional year for those who want to stay with the product.

These options don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive either.

BD needs to take Corporate Responsibility seriously to restore confidence in it's product/company. They can do that by treating and compensating their customers fairly. They need to make things right by supporting customers effectively and ensuring systems are quickly repaired to user satisfaction. Finally, BD must learn from their mistakes (i.e. adequate testing, quality control, etc) and move on.

From a user point of view, I know that I will be sure to back up and set restore points more often. Doesn't look like you can take security of your systems for granted anymore even if you do pay a good buck for it.

Edited by NesralNeets

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I think others have said similar things. I can't speak for the people that have lost data or taken their computers into a repair shop, I didn't lose any data. I did lose access to my computer for a few days though. When the alerts came up I just shut down my computer until I could talk to a computer tech friend of mine. I didn't find out till I got online today and did a search that it was a mistake. I just got my computer fixed and everything seems to be okay.

I've been a loyal customer for three years or so now and have three subscriptions. I have recommended BitDefender to friends and family for a long time. This is the first problem I have had in that time period. I will stay with BitDefender, but how they react to this mistake will be the difference between me continuing to recommend them or not. Reading through this message board, it looks like they aren't actually legally bound to do anything. However, I don't think it would be unreasonable to offer an extended subscription to their 64 bit customers. I know enough about computers that I didn't make any rash decisions that would have harmed my computer. I also have a laptop that I made due with until I figured out the problem. Not everyone has much knowledge about computers or a second computer to use. They pay BitDefender for their knowledge and software.

I'm also pretty disappointed that no email was sent out notifying customers of the problem. It took me three days to have time to do some digging online and find the problem. Granted, I could have searched the first day to find out the problem, but I assumed I had a virus (my antivirus software was telling me that after all ha!) so I planned asking a friend for tips on removing one. It would have saved me a lot of time if they just would have send out a mass email to all their customers (or just the 64bit ones if they have that information) saying how to fix the problem. To me, that was just inexcusable.

I don't know how to handle the people who lost lots of files or paid to have their computer repaired. If they offer an extended subscription to 64 bit users, it would go a long way in my book to keep my loyalty.

In short, I'm pretty mad, but will stay with BitDefender. As far as I'm concerned the situation ###### and I sympathize with those who lost data and money, but 3 days of problems (for me) out of 3 years of quality service isn't too bad. If I will keep recommending BitDefender to friends and family remains to be seen.

BitDefender take some action to keep your loyal customers.

-Travis Myers

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Hi all from New Zealand..... Firstly I thank the Bitdefender Team for getting me out of bed at 4am Sunday morning to answer a telephone call advising me of the issues that I may face with my clients....

I have been an agent in NZ for BitDefender for approx 4 years with NO major issues. The phone call confirms to me that BitDefender ARE committed to the product and their client base. It is NOW Tuesday and because I was able to advise all my clients of the potential issues we had ONLY 1 problem and that was sorted in 1 hour.... 100+ potential & 1 issue .... good for me.

Im sure BitDefender staff will come to the party in some way or another BUT lets get the issues resolved first and put methods in place to eliminate any future problems.

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It's going on 4 days since I've uninstalled the malware and switched to a different product (yes, there are viable alternatives that don't include Norton or McAffee).

I submitted two civil requests for a refund with no information back from BitDefender.

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Hi all from New Zealand..... Firstly I thank the Bitdefender Team for getting me out of bed at 4am Sunday morning to answer a telephone call advising me of the issues that I may face with my clients....

I have been an agent in NZ for BitDefender for approx 4 years with NO major issues. The phone call confirms to me that BitDefender ARE committed to the product and their client base. It is NOW Tuesday and because I was able to advise all my clients of the potential issues we had ONLY 1 problem and that was sorted in 1 hour.... 100+ potential & 1 issue .... good for me.

Im sure BitDefender staff will come to the party in some way or another BUT lets get the issues resolved first and put methods in place to eliminate any future problems.

So they "phone there big customers" and leave there other customers without even an email. Stylish BD very stylish.

@BD Staff: Whats the situation in regard to compensation? Is there going to be any? Any meetings about this? Anything? Or are you going to wait till people 'just go' away?

(After reading about this person above getting warned I will not lie this has somewhat put me in a very foul state of mind now.)

Edited by TheBigPJ

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I will not settle with anything less than full compensation for 4 days of work, operative systems that i had to buy, and a full refund of the product so i can buy something else. Because no matter the refund i will never ever use software even slightly affiliated with bitdefender.

L.o.D what you are completely failing to see the following:

1. The files that was lost was lost solely due to Bitdefender and Bitdefender support. I'm not the only customer who waited, and waited and read and tried to do everything possible to save my computer from trojan.bitdefender. When i finally got an answer they recommended me to shut down my system. And i could not get it back up.

Even without getting this "aid", shutting down the system is what most people do, they simply cant have the computer on for 2-3days. Especially if its a laptop on business. Furthermore there was no statement saying that shutting down was not okay. In fact in most cases it was promoted, so in all cases where shutting down the computer rendered the computer useless, its painfully clear that Bitdefender is responsible for the loss of data.

It's therefore unimportant if the customers made backup or not. Its also irrelevant if they have restore points or not. In fact, customers should and can claim compensation even for things that they lost but have backup on.

This is the only thing i would consider fair, and honest. We all pay you to protect these files, you destroyed them, take full responsibility.

And if Bitdefender shouldn't be able to survive such a blow. Then pretty ###### fine, this sort of mistakes are inexcusable and its well about time that your business gets a scare so that it starts sobering up. Its absolutely unacceptable.

All of you who have the same issue as me above don't settle for anything less. No matter what the bitdefender wannabe employees say there is no getting around the stuff i have stated above. Lets push this for real. I have had enough.

We pay money to bitdefender to protect us from what

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Hi all from New Zealand..... Firstly I thank the Bitdefender Team for getting me out of bed at 4am Sunday morning to answer a telephone call advising me of the issues that I may face with my clients....

I have been an agent in NZ for BitDefender for approx 4 years with NO major issues. The phone call confirms to me that BitDefender ARE committed to the product and their client base. It is NOW Tuesday and because I was able to advise all my clients of the potential issues we had ONLY 1 problem and that was sorted in 1 hour.... 100+ potential & 1 issue .... good for me.

Im sure BitDefender staff will come to the party in some way or another BUT lets get the issues resolved first and put methods in place to eliminate any future problems.

If that is true then shame on Bitdefender for ignoring the customers. They should have sent bulk emails to all the customers warning about the condition. That is not very difficult. A simple apology from Bitdefender for the slack approach to customer care and a promise to avoid a repeat would go a long way in consoling people like me.

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I see the cause of damage done to any computer lies clearly with the virus/malware program writer. But since they are kinda hard to catch, the responsibility certainly doesn't lie with the antivirus company...they don't guarantee you will never get a virus and if they did they would be not only out of business but they would be outright stupid to make such a claim. There is no way I would ever rely on any antivirus program to protect me 100% of the time. If I loose data it is my fault and my fault alone..especially if loosing that data causes me down time beyond recovery time.

There are so many ways to loose data that are not virus/malware related...like spinning out a hard drive, or memory failures, hardware blowups, dropping my laptop or even having it stolen! If I am not backing up important data every day, I would consider myself a complete fool.

Granted BD should work on better customer service, but the responsibility of data loss due to a virus or malware infection lies squarely on the computer operator/owner...imho. To ask for compensation for your own bad data backup policies is just plain goofy...lol

I have a full OS image of my hard drive on an external drive. I have one for every 10 days since January 1, 2010. For every new back up image I make now I delete the oldest image...I keep at least 20 backup images just in case I get infected with a "time release" virus...they are rare these days but when it happens to me and the last 4 weeks of backups are infected...I'm prepared. I keep important daily files on the same external drive in a separate directory called "daily backup". Ok...here's the results, I have not lost any data for any reason for over 6 years and that includes two bad drives and one malware infection. All three times my down time was less than 2 hours and that's only because I took a short nap before I started...and guess what, my antivirus has never caused loss of data..however it did stop the malware infection for a short time but on my third reboot the malware figured out a way to turn off the antivirus! Sneaky suckers! :-)

Antivirs programs make you safer, but they do not protect you from you!

My solution to data loss: Back up, Back up, Back up!!!

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I will safety say that only tech savvy people know how to backup their important data and some other slightly more technical savvy folks.

I have relatives, friend and even my wife do not know how to do backup. Their basic is to use the web, email and etc. Portable drive, backup policy and etc still very much alien to them.

The sole purpose of Anti-virus or security suit is to prevent ,though not 100% guarantee foolproof, on viruses, malware and etc. User usage behavior still very important and with the right usage, usually prevent oneself from hitting with virus.

But this time around.. it is different situation, we have an automatic push down of patches and update from BD.

No control over these as this should be the best practice of regularity updating the virus signature database.

There is no malware or whatever in our system ... you shutdown yesterday and power-up today... update push to us automatically and suddenly "pop" more an 1000+ files infected with malware???? even BD own files???

Default setting is quarantine and for non-technie user like my wife, they reboot... and "TATA" system unable to boot????

Note... even after more than 3 days... there is no email blast or whatever warning of the issue. But there are hundreds if not thousand of system already down. And I can bet you that there are many more yet to understand why until they sent their computer into hospital paying 100 if not more to service their notebook. Most of the time, it will mean re-install OS (easier way) and would potential wipe out the C drives. And as per default setting in most PCs, user data also in C drive. And there goes with your data.....

Like it or not... the whole fiasco and bug from BD is not done as well to react.

1. Why is this bug or faulty update is being release without proper Quality Check.

2. Why is there no forward warning in email blast to user? Most of us have to google to find out the problem.

3. It take more than 3 days to solve the problem. As least from my point of view. After I patch, and did the automatic update, the same problem still occurs. I have since uninstall BD to prevent further damages.

Of course... for majority of the user here, if we can find our way here, mostly are pretty tech savvy to search and ask, we do have some form of backup or at least for me, my data reside in other partition, so I can safetly resinstall without worrying my data files are wiped out.

But then ... how many percent of the BD 64bit user are in this tech savvy category?

We buy security suite is to protect our com from malware and etc. And not paying for something that will do self-destruction without any warning.

Like it or not... being a supporter of BD for past 3 to 4 years. I now completely lost the confident in their product.

Top10review or whatever .. I think I give them 2 star as of now.

Edited by lorddraco

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I will safety say that only tech savvy people know how to backup their important data and some other slightly more technical savvy folks. I have relatives, friend and even my wife do not know how to do backup. Their basic is to use the web, email and etc. Portable drive, backup policy and etc still very much alien to them.

Yes, but we have to get experience too, like a driver with a car. Maybe too much advertisement from tech companies who pretend computers are now plug'n play and we do not need to know how it works. I learned the hard way to save personal data.

Default setting is quarantine and for non-technie user like my wife, they reboot... and "TATA" system unable to boot???? .

It is a good idea to have this default setting. I remember a few years ago with another FW AV, it was worse, defaut setting was... destroy!

I agree with you on the following point: The problem when we feel unease is we try to flee the problem (aggressive dog - we turn our back, erratic computer - we close it) although the safest thing to do is to face it. A few years ago, I destroyed some software and had to reinstall them because of "false positive", I did not look for an answer on internet.

I probably escaped the black saturday havoc because I did not use the computer linked to BD that day... however I already had similar problems a few years ago

in most PCs, user data also in C drive. And there goes with your data..... we do have some form of backup or at least for me, my data reside in other partition, so I can safetly resinstall without worrying my data files are wiped out.

That, BD is not responsible for that. I learned the hard way, long time ago, we have to back-up as often as possible - at least every week when we work a lot on the computer. You follow an excellent pattern (having another partition or hard disk with personal data separated from system software) Everyone should do that.

1. Why is this bug or faulty update is being release without proper Quality Check.

That is the biggest blunder from BD. There, they have no excuse.

We suffered too in my company when we launched operations without having done a parallel run on our software transmission operations. It was costly too.

We buy security suite is to protect our com from malware and etc.

I agree with your disappointment. I consider that any software I install on my computer could simply break it down because there could be a blunder that will cripple the registry base.

Some cautious attitude to follow:

Avoid the 3 in 1 subscription if possible (ok I did it... however although I have BD on only one computer)

Never install the same software and updates on several computers the same day, even if we love the software and even if it never created any problem before, whatever free or paid...

Some software companies release updates very often. But I always wait for several days before installing it on all my computers and I always try them before. Example: CCleaner, slysoft and so on.

I save my personal data on three hard disks (different brands) every week or month or three months... and put them in the cellar (not on the ground!) in case of a fire... and I can tell you the more I learn, the more I understand I'm still a beginner.

Good luck for you for helping your relatives and friends...

:huh:

L

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Wonderful post Lionet. :)

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Well .. lots of the best practice as I mention could only perform by tech savvy person.

Like I am the only in the household to fixed it, of course, I did an overlook but still manage to savage the situation. Out of 3 PCs, only 1 PC is affected. The rest I quickly reduce the damage, 1 already uninstall BD and installed with trial Kaspersky.

I am in IT industry also ... in fact in storage business. So pretty paranoid on backup. I have at around 3 copies of the my important data in 3 different location. So.. data wise I am pretty safe. Just feeling the anger of wasting my time fixing the problem while I should be catching up my sleep.

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From the other threads here I come to the conclusion that the BD team is not well equipped and/or does not take technical support seriously. Apparently a lot of problems such as greying of the icons and BD disappearing from the tray still exists. I will take a decision soon...

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From the other threads here I come to the conclusion that the BD team is not well equipped and/or does not take technical support seriously. Apparently a lot of problems such as greying of the icons and BD disappearing from the tray still exists. I will take a decision soon...

For what it's worth, I consider these problems far more important than the disastrous one-off (hopefully) dodgy update. I would certainly appreciate knowing what efforts technical support are putting into resolving these issues, other than demanding a seemingly endless list of diagnostic logs. In fact, as a coder, I would be happy to discuss the technical aspects as well!

Kieran

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You guys talk like making a backup is hard, open start menu type "backup" in the search box and click the "Back up now" button. You done its built right into windows and the only way to make it easier is to put the backup button on the desktop.

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you are so pathetic. kill yourself

Good effort for a first post. Maybe a course in creative writing?

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To the degree you get upset and want to blame others for downtime and data loss is to the degree you should learn enough about computer systems that you never have to worry about it ever again. I learned because I lost over 1000 family pictures and more than 20 videos of grand parents telling about their life 3 months before they died in an auto accident. I also lost a book manuscript I had worked on for 2 years. All lost. That was enough to turn me into a back-up and recovery master. I lost the data because of a hard drive failure after a power supply failure as a result of a lighting strike and worst of all...my own ignorance!

Now I have an APC and a backup regiment that is as close to fail safe as I can get it. I even got a recovery program and was able to recover almost all the pictures off that drive and 10 of the videos...the rest was corrupted beyond recovery, but I learned my lesson!

Take a close look...just how valuable is your data? Is it too valuable to trust a single $50 program to? If the answer is yes, then learn... Everything you could ever need to know is readily avaliable. I did it for less than 150.00 and about three days of research. I got a good drive image program and a 500gb external usb/esata drive and for the really important stuff I have a 16gb thumb drive.

To me "Not being tech savvy" is the worst of all excuses because it is a simple matter of doing the research. Blaming others is simply a waste of time and defines my own laziness and to top it off, it doesn't get my data back.

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To the degree you get upset and want to blame others for downtime and data loss is to the degree you should learn enough about computer systems that you never have to worry about it ever again. I learned because I lost over 1000 family pictures and more than 20 videos of grand parents telling about their life 3 months before they died in an auto accident. I also lost a book manuscript I had worked on for 2 years. All lost. That was enough to turn me into a back-up and recovery master. I lost the data because of a hard drive failure after a power supply failure as a result of a lighting strike and worst of all...my own ignorance!

Now I have an APC and a backup regiment that is as close to fail safe as I can get it. I even got a recovery program and was able to recover almost all the pictures off that drive and 10 of the videos...the rest was corrupted beyond recovery, but I learned my lesson!

Take a close look...just how valuable is your data? Is it too valuable to trust a single $50 program to? If the answer is yes, then learn... Everything you could ever need to know is readily avaliable. I did it for less than 150.00 and about three days of research. I got a good drive image program and a 500gb external usb/esata drive and for the really important stuff I have a 16gb thumb drive.

To me "Not being tech savvy" is the worst of all excuses because it is a simple matter of doing the research. Blaming others is simply a waste of time and defines my own laziness and to top it off, it doesn't get my data back.

Good post, shpshftr.

But be warned, they will attack you for claiming their ignorance on that.

I have asked those that lost data to answer as to HOW they lost data & never once could they answer that.

Unless they have BD set to autodelete, the files ARE in fact still there.

Unless they format the HDD & actually wipe things out.

A clean install with Vista/Win7 will move EVERYTHING from the previous install to a single folder & cleanly install the OS.

Edited by L.o.D.

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L.o.D what you are completely failing to see the following:

1. The files that was lost was lost solely due to Bitdefender and Bitdefender support. I'm not the only customer who waited, and waited and read and tried to do everything possible to save my computer from trojan.bitdefender. When i finally got an answer they recommended me to shut down my system. And i could not get it back up.

I have asked time & time again exactly HOW the data was lost because restarting does NOT cause data loss. Yes, restarting will normally fix minor issues.

Formatting will wipe out files, but did any mods say to format? I don't know.

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Well...I'll be honest with you. I have already paid for a 2 year license. I really have not had issues with BitDefender Internet Security...until this past Saturday.

I really got scared when I ran a virus scan and bitdefender said I had over 12,000 viruses!! I wasn't able to run system restore, wasn't able to access any tools, went to reboot and I ended up with a black screen.

I was able to restore my windows 7 with the repair disk I made...that was the only way I could access system restore.

Only problem is...I was able to do the system restore and got everything to work....but I still to this day have icons in my start menu that are the "unknown" icon picture...you know...the white box with things inside the box..that's the icons I have now since this issue on Saturday...and I can't change them.

The other issue since I was able to recover from Saturday...is BitDefender Internet Security will stop working and it asks me if I want to send a bug report. This has been happening every day since Saturday's crash.

All I'm really asking for is you guys please fix these issues....including the one where bitdefender stops working.

Like I said...I havent had any major issues with BitDefender...until now.

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texasghost, can you right click those icons & go to it's properties?

If so, you should be able to find what apps they lead to.

Maybe they do not exist & can be safely deleted.

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You guys talk like making a backup is hard, open start menu type "backup" in the search box and click the "Back up now" button. You done its built right into windows and the only way to make it easier is to put the backup button on the desktop.

well .. I do know but I use other software for my backup. But then again, looking at another angle, there are still tons of people who do not know this piece of feature.

Basically.. there are few group of user ...

1. User who are tech savvy to learn and adapt. Noting that they may not be a technical folks but they still savvy enough to learn, search for information.

2. User who only know the basic.. not that they dont want to learn.. they simply dont understand how, why and etc. Do you blame them for not learning and etc? I dont think this is fair... they may have certain skill they have that most of us dont... so this cannot be compare.

3. obviously .. there are folks who refuse to learn due to whatever reason.

For those who could even come to here in the forum participating and engaging exchanging of information and etc is mostly quite tech savvy. And there is still I believe many or tons of BD user who aint that savvy enough... this could be their learning curve. If they didnt get the right folk to help fix their problem, it could be potential real data lost.

To the degree you get upset and want to blame others for downtime and data loss is to the degree you should learn enough about computer systems that you never have to worry about it ever again. I learned because I lost over 1000 family pictures and more than 20 videos of grand parents telling about their life 3 months before they died in an auto accident. I also lost a book manuscript I had worked on for 2 years. All lost. That was enough to turn me into a back-up and recovery master. I lost the data because of a hard drive failure after a power supply failure as a result of a lighting strike and worst of all...my own ignorance!

Now I have an APC and a backup regiment that is as close to fail safe as I can get it. I even got a recovery program and was able to recover almost all the pictures off that drive and 10 of the videos...the rest was corrupted beyond recovery, but I learned my lesson!

Take a close look...just how valuable is your data? Is it too valuable to trust a single $50 program to? If the answer is yes, then learn... Everything you could ever need to know is readily avaliable. I did it for less than 150.00 and about three days of research. I got a good drive image program and a 500gb external usb/esata drive and for the really important stuff I have a 16gb thumb drive.

To me "Not being tech savvy" is the worst of all excuses because it is a simple matter of doing the research. Blaming others is simply a waste of time and defines my own laziness and to top it off, it doesn't get my data back.

Well .... you aint wrong. I do learn my hard way also many many years back. My 1GB drive just decided to retire 1 fine day. All my school work disappear... no backup of whatso-ever. Those were even the days of Windows 3.11, Dos 6.22 and Win95. There on... I dont really trust disk to protect my data. So .. with own earning, I start to do RAID (Only Mirrored drives), Backup to 3rd location, partition my data (because I need to wipe out my drive when I first infected with virus) and many other best practise that I personnally learning through the hardway.

I have asked time & time again exactly HOW the data was lost because restarting does NOT cause data loss. Yes, restarting will normally fix minor issues.

Formatting will wipe out files, but did any mods say to format? I don't know.

yes you are right. This BD boo boo does not cause data lost. It cause system unavailability.... I am frustrated and angry at BD for their sloppy work. But I am happy and glad that my data is not lost. Just do not have any system to work with for many hours. Luckily .. I still have my work Notebook to still type this piece of message and doing the search for BD fixed (which obviously still a problem and not fixed even with the patch). After so many hours.. I have still yet to fixed my main pc due to my continue trust in BD in their patch/update which obviously dont work at all and now have to restart my restore again. BTW .. I still have my HPTC also having the same problem. Let alone my other family PC using the same ###### software.

Lesson well learn .. cannot save too much by buying from one vendor. So .. I think I will be switching to 2 Software. One type per PC/Notebook.

When I believe there are data lost is mainly due to people not know how to fixed it and make it worst. Next... not all folks have the luxury of multiple PCs.... and if they get the wrong help... there could be data lost due to human ignorance giving wrong advise.

Noting that the mod did say nothing on format but when a person who do not know that this is false positive issue. They are paranoid that they might format the disk (wiping out their data also because data + OS in same partition) to prevent the infection. I do believe there are still many BD user who do not know that this is a faulty update when there is no alert at all. Only when you google it.. then you know it is a BD issue.

This is definitely not a small matter ... can you imagine if a company using BD, set the update to automatic ( mostly true in SME).. suddenly come monday .. most of their machine cannot work? This is definitely a severity 1 issue and it is no joke for such sloppy piece of work.

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I still waiting for BD response to my complain on the refund. Nearly 24 hours.. no response.

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