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> Compensation For False-positive Of Trojan.fakealert.5?, In this thread, it's all about appropriate compensation
lorddraco
post Mar 23 2010, 09:25 AM
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I will safety say that only tech savvy people know how to backup their important data and some other slightly more technical savvy folks.

I have relatives, friend and even my wife do not know how to do backup. Their basic is to use the web, email and etc. Portable drive, backup policy and etc still very much alien to them.

The sole purpose of Anti-virus or security suit is to prevent ,though not 100% guarantee foolproof, on viruses, malware and etc. User usage behavior still very important and with the right usage, usually prevent oneself from hitting with virus.

But this time around.. it is different situation, we have an automatic push down of patches and update from BD.
No control over these as this should be the best practice of regularity updating the virus signature database.
There is no malware or whatever in our system ... you shutdown yesterday and power-up today... update push to us automatically and suddenly "pop" more an 1000+ files infected with malware???? even BD own files???

Default setting is quarantine and for non-technie user like my wife, they reboot... and "TATA" system unable to boot????

Note... even after more than 3 days... there is no email blast or whatever warning of the issue. But there are hundreds if not thousand of system already down. And I can bet you that there are many more yet to understand why until they sent their computer into hospital paying 100 if not more to service their notebook. Most of the time, it will mean re-install OS (easier way) and would potential wipe out the C drives. And as per default setting in most PCs, user data also in C drive. And there goes with your data.....

Like it or not... the whole fiasco and bug from BD is not done as well to react.

1. Why is this bug or faulty update is being release without proper Quality Check.
2. Why is there no forward warning in email blast to user? Most of us have to google to find out the problem.
3. It take more than 3 days to solve the problem. As least from my point of view. After I patch, and did the automatic update, the same problem still occurs. I have since uninstall BD to prevent further damages.

Of course... for majority of the user here, if we can find our way here, mostly are pretty tech savvy to search and ask, we do have some form of backup or at least for me, my data reside in other partition, so I can safetly resinstall without worrying my data files are wiped out.

But then ... how many percent of the BD 64bit user are in this tech savvy category?

We buy security suite is to protect our com from malware and etc. And not paying for something that will do self-destruction without any warning.

Like it or not... being a supporter of BD for past 3 to 4 years. I now completely lost the confident in their product.

Top10review or whatever .. I think I give them 2 star as of now.

This post has been edited by lorddraco: Mar 23 2010, 09:28 AM
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Lionet
post Mar 23 2010, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (lorddraco)
I will safety say that only tech savvy people know how to backup their important data and some other slightly more technical savvy folks. I have relatives, friend and even my wife do not know how to do backup. Their basic is to use the web, email and etc. Portable drive, backup policy and etc still very much alien to them.


Yes, but we have to get experience too, like a driver with a car. Maybe too much advertisement from tech companies who pretend computers are now plug'n play and we do not need to know how it works. I learned the hard way to save personal data.

QUOTE (lorddraco)
Default setting is quarantine and for non-technie user like my wife, they reboot... and "TATA" system unable to boot???? .

It is a good idea to have this default setting. I remember a few years ago with another FW AV, it was worse, defaut setting was... destroy!
I agree with you on the following point: The problem when we feel unease is we try to flee the problem (aggressive dog - we turn our back, erratic computer - we close it) although the safest thing to do is to face it. A few years ago, I destroyed some software and had to reinstall them because of "false positive", I did not look for an answer on internet.

I probably escaped the black saturday havoc because I did not use the computer linked to BD that day... however I already had similar problems a few years ago

QUOTE (lorddraco)
in most PCs, user data also in C drive. And there goes with your data..... we do have some form of backup or at least for me, my data reside in other partition, so I can safetly resinstall without worrying my data files are wiped out.

That, BD is not responsible for that. I learned the hard way, long time ago, we have to back-up as often as possible - at least every week when we work a lot on the computer. You follow an excellent pattern (having another partition or hard disk with personal data separated from system software) Everyone should do that.

QUOTE (lorddraco)
1. Why is this bug or faulty update is being release without proper Quality Check.

That is the biggest blunder from BD. There, they have no excuse.
We suffered too in my company when we launched operations without having done a parallel run on our software transmission operations. It was costly too.

QUOTE (lorddraco)
We buy security suite is to protect our com from malware and etc.

I agree with your disappointment. I consider that any software I install on my computer could simply break it down because there could be a blunder that will cripple the registry base.

Some cautious attitude to follow:
Avoid the 3 in 1 subscription if possible (ok I did it... however although I have BD on only one computer)
Never install the same software and updates on several computers the same day, even if we love the software and even if it never created any problem before, whatever free or paid...
Some software companies release updates very often. But I always wait for several days before installing it on all my computers and I always try them before. Example: CCleaner, slysoft and so on.
I save my personal data on three hard disks (different brands) every week or month or three months... and put them in the cellar (not on the ground!) in case of a fire... and I can tell you the more I learn, the more I understand I'm still a beginner.


Good luck for you for helping your relatives and friends...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

L
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pvp
post Mar 23 2010, 10:20 AM
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Wonderful post Lionet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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lorddraco
post Mar 23 2010, 12:23 PM
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Well .. lots of the best practice as I mention could only perform by tech savvy person.

Like I am the only in the household to fixed it, of course, I did an overlook but still manage to savage the situation. Out of 3 PCs, only 1 PC is affected. The rest I quickly reduce the damage, 1 already uninstall BD and installed with trial Kaspersky.

I am in IT industry also ... in fact in storage business. So pretty paranoid on backup. I have at around 3 copies of the my important data in 3 different location. So.. data wise I am pretty safe. Just feeling the anger of wasting my time fixing the problem while I should be catching up my sleep.
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pvp
post Mar 23 2010, 12:55 PM
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From the other threads here I come to the conclusion that the BD team is not well equipped and/or does not take technical support seriously. Apparently a lot of problems such as greying of the icons and BD disappearing from the tray still exists. I will take a decision soon...
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Kieran
post Mar 23 2010, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (pvp @ Mar 23 2010, 11:55 AM) *
From the other threads here I come to the conclusion that the BD team is not well equipped and/or does not take technical support seriously. Apparently a lot of problems such as greying of the icons and BD disappearing from the tray still exists. I will take a decision soon...


For what it's worth, I consider these problems far more important than the disastrous one-off (hopefully) dodgy update. I would certainly appreciate knowing what efforts technical support are putting into resolving these issues, other than demanding a seemingly endless list of diagnostic logs. In fact, as a coder, I would be happy to discuss the technical aspects as well!

Kieran
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marklar45
post Mar 23 2010, 01:27 PM
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You guys talk like making a backup is hard, open start menu type "backup" in the search box and click the "Back up now" button. You done its built right into windows and the only way to make it easier is to put the backup button on the desktop.
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Kieran
post Mar 23 2010, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (slvn2468 @ Mar 23 2010, 11:50 AM) *
you are so pathetic. kill yourself


Good effort for a first post. Maybe a course in creative writing?
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shpshftr
post Mar 23 2010, 02:48 PM
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To the degree you get upset and want to blame others for downtime and data loss is to the degree you should learn enough about computer systems that you never have to worry about it ever again. I learned because I lost over 1000 family pictures and more than 20 videos of grand parents telling about their life 3 months before they died in an auto accident. I also lost a book manuscript I had worked on for 2 years. All lost. That was enough to turn me into a back-up and recovery master. I lost the data because of a hard drive failure after a power supply failure as a result of a lighting strike and worst of all...my own ignorance!

Now I have an APC and a backup regiment that is as close to fail safe as I can get it. I even got a recovery program and was able to recover almost all the pictures off that drive and 10 of the videos...the rest was corrupted beyond recovery, but I learned my lesson!

Take a close look...just how valuable is your data? Is it too valuable to trust a single $50 program to? If the answer is yes, then learn... Everything you could ever need to know is readily avaliable. I did it for less than 150.00 and about three days of research. I got a good drive image program and a 500gb external usb/esata drive and for the really important stuff I have a 16gb thumb drive.

To me "Not being tech savvy" is the worst of all excuses because it is a simple matter of doing the research. Blaming others is simply a waste of time and defines my own laziness and to top it off, it doesn't get my data back.
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L.o.D.
post Mar 23 2010, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (shpshftr @ Mar 23 2010, 09:48 AM) *
To the degree you get upset and want to blame others for downtime and data loss is to the degree you should learn enough about computer systems that you never have to worry about it ever again. I learned because I lost over 1000 family pictures and more than 20 videos of grand parents telling about their life 3 months before they died in an auto accident. I also lost a book manuscript I had worked on for 2 years. All lost. That was enough to turn me into a back-up and recovery master. I lost the data because of a hard drive failure after a power supply failure as a result of a lighting strike and worst of all...my own ignorance!

Now I have an APC and a backup regiment that is as close to fail safe as I can get it. I even got a recovery program and was able to recover almost all the pictures off that drive and 10 of the videos...the rest was corrupted beyond recovery, but I learned my lesson!

Take a close look...just how valuable is your data? Is it too valuable to trust a single $50 program to? If the answer is yes, then learn... Everything you could ever need to know is readily avaliable. I did it for less than 150.00 and about three days of research. I got a good drive image program and a 500gb external usb/esata drive and for the really important stuff I have a 16gb thumb drive.

To me "Not being tech savvy" is the worst of all excuses because it is a simple matter of doing the research. Blaming others is simply a waste of time and defines my own laziness and to top it off, it doesn't get my data back.



Good post, shpshftr.
But be warned, they will attack you for claiming their ignorance on that.

I have asked those that lost data to answer as to HOW they lost data & never once could they answer that.
Unless they have BD set to autodelete, the files ARE in fact still there.
Unless they format the HDD & actually wipe things out.
A clean install with Vista/Win7 will move EVERYTHING from the previous install to a single folder & cleanly install the OS.

This post has been edited by L.o.D.: Mar 23 2010, 02:59 PM
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L.o.D.
post Mar 23 2010, 03:21 PM
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QUOTE (kringlan @ Mar 23 2010, 12:29 AM) *
L.o.D what you are completely failing to see the following:
1. The files that was lost was lost solely due to Bitdefender and Bitdefender support. I'm not the only customer who waited, and waited and read and tried to do everything possible to save my computer from trojan.bitdefender. When i finally got an answer they recommended me to shut down my system. And i could not get it back up.


I have asked time & time again exactly HOW the data was lost because restarting does NOT cause data loss. Yes, restarting will normally fix minor issues.
Formatting will wipe out files, but did any mods say to format? I don't know.
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texasghost
post Mar 23 2010, 04:02 PM
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Well...I'll be honest with you. I have already paid for a 2 year license. I really have not had issues with BitDefender Internet Security...until this past Saturday.

I really got scared when I ran a virus scan and bitdefender said I had over 12,000 viruses!! I wasn't able to run system restore, wasn't able to access any tools, went to reboot and I ended up with a black screen.

I was able to restore my windows 7 with the repair disk I made...that was the only way I could access system restore.

Only problem is...I was able to do the system restore and got everything to work....but I still to this day have icons in my start menu that are the "unknown" icon picture...you know...the white box with things inside the box..that's the icons I have now since this issue on Saturday...and I can't change them.

The other issue since I was able to recover from Saturday...is BitDefender Internet Security will stop working and it asks me if I want to send a bug report. This has been happening every day since Saturday's crash.

All I'm really asking for is you guys please fix these issues....including the one where bitdefender stops working.

Like I said...I havent had any major issues with BitDefender...until now.
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L.o.D.
post Mar 23 2010, 04:11 PM
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texasghost, can you right click those icons & go to it's properties?
If so, you should be able to find what apps they lead to.
Maybe they do not exist & can be safely deleted.
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lorddraco
post Mar 23 2010, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (marklar45 @ Mar 23 2010, 08:27 PM) *
You guys talk like making a backup is hard, open start menu type "backup" in the search box and click the "Back up now" button. You done its built right into windows and the only way to make it easier is to put the backup button on the desktop.


well .. I do know but I use other software for my backup. But then again, looking at another angle, there are still tons of people who do not know this piece of feature.

Basically.. there are few group of user ...

1. User who are tech savvy to learn and adapt. Noting that they may not be a technical folks but they still savvy enough to learn, search for information.

2. User who only know the basic.. not that they dont want to learn.. they simply dont understand how, why and etc. Do you blame them for not learning and etc? I dont think this is fair... they may have certain skill they have that most of us dont... so this cannot be compare.

3. obviously .. there are folks who refuse to learn due to whatever reason.

For those who could even come to here in the forum participating and engaging exchanging of information and etc is mostly quite tech savvy. And there is still I believe many or tons of BD user who aint that savvy enough... this could be their learning curve. If they didnt get the right folk to help fix their problem, it could be potential real data lost.


QUOTE (shpshftr @ Mar 23 2010, 09:48 PM) *
To the degree you get upset and want to blame others for downtime and data loss is to the degree you should learn enough about computer systems that you never have to worry about it ever again. I learned because I lost over 1000 family pictures and more than 20 videos of grand parents telling about their life 3 months before they died in an auto accident. I also lost a book manuscript I had worked on for 2 years. All lost. That was enough to turn me into a back-up and recovery master. I lost the data because of a hard drive failure after a power supply failure as a result of a lighting strike and worst of all...my own ignorance!

Now I have an APC and a backup regiment that is as close to fail safe as I can get it. I even got a recovery program and was able to recover almost all the pictures off that drive and 10 of the videos...the rest was corrupted beyond recovery, but I learned my lesson!

Take a close look...just how valuable is your data? Is it too valuable to trust a single $50 program to? If the answer is yes, then learn... Everything you could ever need to know is readily avaliable. I did it for less than 150.00 and about three days of research. I got a good drive image program and a 500gb external usb/esata drive and for the really important stuff I have a 16gb thumb drive.

To me "Not being tech savvy" is the worst of all excuses because it is a simple matter of doing the research. Blaming others is simply a waste of time and defines my own laziness and to top it off, it doesn't get my data back.


Well .... you aint wrong. I do learn my hard way also many many years back. My 1GB drive just decided to retire 1 fine day. All my school work disappear... no backup of whatso-ever. Those were even the days of Windows 3.11, Dos 6.22 and Win95. There on... I dont really trust disk to protect my data. So .. with own earning, I start to do RAID (Only Mirrored drives), Backup to 3rd location, partition my data (because I need to wipe out my drive when I first infected with virus) and many other best practise that I personnally learning through the hardway.

QUOTE (L.o.D. @ Mar 23 2010, 10:21 PM) *
I have asked time & time again exactly HOW the data was lost because restarting does NOT cause data loss. Yes, restarting will normally fix minor issues.
Formatting will wipe out files, but did any mods say to format? I don't know.


yes you are right. This BD boo boo does not cause data lost. It cause system unavailability.... I am frustrated and angry at BD for their sloppy work. But I am happy and glad that my data is not lost. Just do not have any system to work with for many hours. Luckily .. I still have my work Notebook to still type this piece of message and doing the search for BD fixed (which obviously still a problem and not fixed even with the patch). After so many hours.. I have still yet to fixed my main pc due to my continue trust in BD in their patch/update which obviously dont work at all and now have to restart my restore again. BTW .. I still have my HPTC also having the same problem. Let alone my other family PC using the same ###### software.

Lesson well learn .. cannot save too much by buying from one vendor. So .. I think I will be switching to 2 Software. One type per PC/Notebook.

When I believe there are data lost is mainly due to people not know how to fixed it and make it worst. Next... not all folks have the luxury of multiple PCs.... and if they get the wrong help... there could be data lost due to human ignorance giving wrong advise.

Noting that the mod did say nothing on format but when a person who do not know that this is false positive issue. They are paranoid that they might format the disk (wiping out their data also because data + OS in same partition) to prevent the infection. I do believe there are still many BD user who do not know that this is a faulty update when there is no alert at all. Only when you google it.. then you know it is a BD issue.

This is definitely not a small matter ... can you imagine if a company using BD, set the update to automatic ( mostly true in SME).. suddenly come monday .. most of their machine cannot work? This is definitely a severity 1 issue and it is no joke for such sloppy piece of work.

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lorddraco
post Mar 23 2010, 04:19 PM
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I still waiting for BD response to my complain on the refund. Nearly 24 hours.. no response.
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texasghost
post Mar 23 2010, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (L.o.D. @ Mar 23 2010, 10:11 AM) *
texasghost, can you right click those icons & go to it's properties?
If so, you should be able to find what apps they lead to.
Maybe they do not exist & can be safely deleted.



Yeah...i was able to right click into properties and go to the section that says...change icon...I was able to choose an icon...and apply and click ok..but the icon won't change.

But actually...the apps the shortcuts in the Start Menu lead to do exist...cause I can click on them and they work...it's just the fact the icon shows as "unknown" even though it works. An example for me is in the start menu... "Windows Update". It works when I click on it...it's just the fact the icon shows as "unknown". And right now in the start menu I have about 5 apps with "unknown" icons on them...but they all work.

It's not a major deal...it's just a small annoyance cause it had an actual icon in the Start menu since Saturday...now it doesn't.
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kevinh
post Mar 23 2010, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE (lorddraco @ Mar 23 2010, 11:19 AM) *
I still waiting for BD response to my complain on the refund. Nearly 24 hours.. no response.



No kidding. I even tried calling them to get me to talk to someone who can give me a refund THEY REFUSED. This issue over my fooking money better be resolved soon....
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lorddraco
post Mar 23 2010, 04:32 PM
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Personally.. I dont stay in States or whatever... I am in Asia Countries and I buy direct. I think there goes my $$$ ###### ...

poor poor response for the irresponsible company.
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L.o.D.
post Mar 23 2010, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (lorddraco @ Mar 23 2010, 11:12 AM) *
yes you are right. This BD boo boo does not cause data lost.



That is not what I stated. I stated that a system restart will not cause data loss.



texasghost, I had that issue once many years ago & it just fixed itself. One of windows oddities I guess.
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TheBigPJ
post Mar 23 2010, 06:35 PM
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@BitDefender: What is the situation in regard to compensation?

Your support rating on on websites is slowly lowering.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/product/298...ivirus_v10.html
Cast your vote now.
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