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> Compensation For False-positive Of Trojan.fakealert.5?, In this thread, it's all about appropriate compensation
L.o.D.
post Mar 22 2010, 06:16 PM
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There's something you are forgetting.
No one stated that BD was/is not responsible for this screw up.
But the fact still remains that a lot of people did not have any backups of their data/work etc. Or they have a live backup connected to the same machine.
Would you still say BD is responsible for those actions?

I asked the other day exactly how these people were losing data & not one would give an answer.
Why is that?
What about those that enabled an advanced setting & claim they were not responsible for doing so?
Who was responsible for turning something on their own machine?

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Midnight Rain
post Mar 22 2010, 06:19 PM
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They are to blame, but was the direct damage so great?
BD didn't actually delete anything, unless you set the action instead of "move to quarantine" to "delete".

In default mode, all it did was lock files in quarantine. System files, as well. The greatest mistake was restarting the computer with those files still locked. This is the point where mayhem broke loose.

This is just a matter of lack of knowledge concerning how an antivirus works and how an operating system works.
Because had anyone known those were critical files in quarantine, they probably wouldn't have restarted the computer.
My opinion.

This post has been edited by Midnight Rain: Mar 22 2010, 06:21 PM
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warlord
post Mar 22 2010, 06:26 PM
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Thankfully 2 of my 3 systems were not up during the fiasco...I just spent several hours getting my laptop back up and running...I will watch closely and see what if any compensation is offered, I feel a extension of the the current license is a fair trade for the hours I lost fixing the screwup..........The 4 previous years with trend micro was never a problem..Bit defender needs to make some jesture to keep me from going back....

This post has been edited by warlord: Mar 22 2010, 06:33 PM
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kringlan
post Mar 22 2010, 06:28 PM
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@L.o.D

Yep i would. It would be a difference if this was a virus that somehow escaped the system, or if it was a crash unrelated to bit defender where bit defender supposedly would have helped. This is a case of the company destroying your files - nothing else. They will and should reimburse every single thing that they have destroyed(i.e. where it is clear that the customer have followed standard procedure dealing with what was perceived as a virus or following the instructions of the support)

@midnight

http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?sho...amp;#entry81567

Check out my post. This is not the case of ignorance. Most people who got alot destroyed by bitdefender was not ignorant, nor did not take advice from staff or followed their general procedures.

I believe there are a lot of pretty obvious cases here.

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L.o.D.
post Mar 22 2010, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (kringlan @ Mar 22 2010, 01:28 PM) *
@L.o.D

Yep i would. It would be a difference if this was a virus that somehow escaped the system, or if it was a crash unrelated to bit defender where bit defender supposedly would have helped. This is a case of the company destroying your files - nothing else. They will and should reimburse every single thing that they have destroyed(i.e. where it is clear that the customer have followed standard procedure dealing with what was perceived as a virus or following the instructions of the support)




You make it sound like BD did this on purpose.
Most of you are doing that & it is wrong.
I am NOT saying they are not responsible. But the fact remains that a lot of you are coming off as if they did it on purpose.
Had people NOT formatted & not set BD to auto delete, there would have been no files lost.
They cannot reimburse you for personal data loss such as pictures etc. How do you put a price on that?
You can't.

For those on Vista/Win7, a clean install should have sufficed as it would save the old install to a single folder.
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jburd
post Mar 22 2010, 07:04 PM
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Unfortunately as I was unable to boot my computer I had no means of knowing where or how the problem originated from.

I had to install everything from scratch because BitDefender quarantined 18812 files from windows and programs.

I have lost two working days formatting hard drive and reinstalling my programmes to get back to where I was.
Luckily I have all my files on another disk, so I didn't lose them with the format, but having to install the OS and every single program is very time consuming.

I am most disappointed with this situation and I certainly won’t be using Bit Defender again as I have lost trust in the company.
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kevinh
post Mar 22 2010, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE (L.o.D. @ Mar 22 2010, 01:54 PM) *
You make it sound like BD did this on purpose.
Most of you are doing that & it is wrong.
I am NOT saying they are not responsible. But the fact remains that a lot of you are coming off as if they did it on purpose.
Had people NOT formatted & not set BD to auto delete, there would have been no files lost.
They cannot reimburse you for personal data loss such as pictures etc. How do you put a price on that?
You can't.

For those on Vista/Win7, a clean install should have sufficed as it would save the old install to a single folder.



Ya a clean install which leads to countless hours doing things other than making money or real things that you should be doing over this MISTAKE. Not only that but lost time peeps needed to be on their comps for business/school or whatever might be the case. This should have been VERY easily recognizable had they tested it themselves hence therein lies the problem.
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L.o.D.
post Mar 22 2010, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (kevinh @ Mar 22 2010, 03:07 PM) *
Ya a clean install which leads to countless hours doing things other than making money or real things that you should be doing over this MISTAKE. Not only that but lost time peeps needed to be on their comps for business/school or whatever might be the case. This should have been VERY easily recognizable had they tested it themselves hence therein lies the problem.



First, there is no reason why it should take countless hours to reinstall windows & all 3rd party apps again.
Secondly, if you use that same PC for work/school, you should have a secure backup kept elsewhere.


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pvp
post Mar 22 2010, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (L.o.D. @ Mar 22 2010, 11:46 PM) *
There's something you are forgetting.
No one stated that BD was/is not responsible for this screw up.
But the fact still remains that a lot of people did not have any backups of their data/work etc. Or they have a live backup connected to the same machine.
Would you still say BD is responsible for those actions?

I asked the other day exactly how these people were losing data & not one would give an answer.
Why is that?
What about those that enabled an advanced setting & claim they were not responsible for doing so?
Who was responsible for turning something on their own machine?


It is clear that you are a BD employee or a poodle of the BD team trying to nick a license or two by impressing the masters. Anyway you are sitting in your room and assuming things. As per your arguments newbies do not have the right to complain if BD products delete all their files and locks up their system. Just imagine a complete newbie buying a new system and this thing happens to him. I am sure he will panic and his first tendency would be to restart the sytem and doing that would render his system uselss for him. He wouldn't obviously have a clue what was going on and would naturally assume that there was something wrong with his PC. So if he comes here and blames BD for causing all the mental agony, you would accuse him of being a newbie and ask to be an expert before buying a computer? Here is another situation this time involving my friend whom I had called about an hour ago. He has a 64 bit Windows 7 Enterprise with Bitdefender IS 2010. He had logged in yesterday to chat with his sister and to watch his 6 month year old niece on webcam after a long time and after that he was about to watch some online streams of games he wouldn't miss for anything. Then the fake alert disaster happened and spoilt his entire night for him. He is a very busy person, he shut down his system when nothing was working, in fact he didn't have a clue that this whole thing was due to Bitdefender. He didn't lose any data but he lost a lot of time and also a lot of things he was emotionally attached to. Can there be any backup for this? You are just looking things in a business way. There can be worse things than money loss and some things can't be backed up. Also there are thousand other instances I am sure where you wouldn't be able to force the blame on the user. Therefore before ridiculing people and starting pro BD arguments just understand this basic rule.

It was just Bitdefender's fault for issuing a faulty update without sufficient testing. The case would have been different if a smart virus/trojan sneaked through BD's defenses and wreaked havoc but that is not what happened. This is plain negligence. Why doesn't the BD team come out and explain how this happened? An security app creating company should be doubly as vigilent and alert as other software makers.

@ L.o.D -> If by any chance you do not happen to be a BD employee then you should shut up and let the BD team handle all the compensation claims on a person to person basis. I am amazed how the BD team have let you unleash your disrespect towards their customers who come here looking for respite to this condition.

It would have been nice if you had advised people in a nice manner to be careful in the future and take backups.
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BruntFCA
post Mar 22 2010, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (kevinh @ Mar 22 2010, 07:07 PM) *
Ya a clean install which leads to countless hours doing things other than making money or real things that you should be doing over this MISTAKE. Not only that but lost time peeps needed to be on their comps for business/school or whatever might be the case. This should have been VERY easily recognizable had they tested it themselves hence therein lies the problem.


Just to let you know I think LOD is a paid up patsy for damage control by Bit-Defender. He made a fool of himself in the "Bad update or?" thread he started. Users were actually asking him to be kicked out of the thread. Go and check that thread if you don't believe me. He was made many users angry and he also contradicted himself saying he was not blaming users then flaming some guy using "YOUR" problem in capitals. This is all borne out in the thread; he can say what he likes, but read for yourself with the search function LOD.

His modus operandi appears to be to

1 Diminish impact of data loss
2 Blame users in some way or another
3 Ignore time wasted issues. Time = Money
4 Focus the problem on Quarantine deletion check box issue. Ignoring other possible avenues of data loss.
5 Try to diminish the culpability of Bitdefender. No "type testing" of patch by system vendor = epic fail, no way around that sorry.
5 He sometimes flames inexperienced users. Again check the "Bad Update" thread.

Don't waste your time with this guy, he's here to *waste your time*.


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L.o.D.
post Mar 22 2010, 08:39 PM
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If a complete newbie buys a system & installs BD on it, HE WOULD NOT HAVE ANY CLUE ABOUT THE ADVANCED FEATURES & NOT TURN THEM ON IN THE FIRST PLACE.
So that logic of yours is flawed.

BTW, I have to go to assumptions due to people NOT answering how they are losing data or why they have no backups, ESPECIALLY when working on a $4500 project for a client.

Also, think it was YOU that stated YOU are not responsible for enabling a feature on YOUR machine, but when asked who was, you ignored that.
No one else is responsible for turning something on, on YOUR computer.
YOU are.

I have said time & time again that I NEVER once stated BD was not at fault here!

EVERYTHING that is on a computer CAN be backed up. Stating otherwise is false.

As for losing things they were emotionally attached to, there was no reason to had they had backups if they were THAT important!

I never once denied that BD screwed up, but you feel the need to attack me which is why your posts were deleted.

In regards to users that do not have a recovery cd because they bought their system pre-installed with Vista/Win7, I blame that on the store or the manufacturer of that PC.

Brunt, you are too blind on bashing me that you failed to see what I was actually blaming on the user.
1: Turning a feature on their machine. No one else is responsible for that.
Was BD responsible?
Did they make you turn that on?
2: Lack of backups, especially when money is concerned.
That is ALL I have blamed on the user.
NOT for this disaster.

This post has been edited by L.o.D.: Mar 22 2010, 08:44 PM
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pvp
post Mar 22 2010, 08:53 PM
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Again this L.o.Da is assuming things sitting in his AC room. This whole fiasco happened just because of BD team's negligence. It would have been different if a virus sneaked through and destroyed all the data or a hard disk crash caused it. What backup do you have for time loss? Can't you read or understand simple things? Just learn to read properly before advising people.
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L.o.D.
post Mar 22 2010, 08:57 PM
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And yet again, you failed to answer any of the questions & just point fingers.

Like I said, I have to assume somethings since you refuse to answer simple questions like you are scared to.

You also failed to see that I have never stated that BD was not responsible for this fiasco, just so you could continue to bash others.

But the FACT remains that only the user is responsible for enabling any settings on their own machine.

How do you expect someone to backup time lost?
Like seriously. That cannot be done.
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pvp
post Mar 22 2010, 09:01 PM
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at L.o.D direct your questions to a particular user. Are you asking me? Enabling which settings?
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L.o.D.
post Mar 22 2010, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (pvp @ Mar 22 2010, 04:01 PM) *
at L.o.D direct your questions to a particular user. Are you asking me? Enabling which settings?



The settings to auto delete files without even trying to clean said files.
People had that on & wondered why files were getting deleted & then claim they are not responsible for turning it on to begin with.

I feel sorry for those that bought prebuilts machines & got screwed by the manufacturer by not having a recovery cd or a window sinstall cd included.
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pvp
post Mar 22 2010, 09:23 PM
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Where in my post did I say that newbies set their BD to auto delete? And do not assume that newbies don't change settings. All of us have done that. Why are you assuming things sitting before your computer? Newbie, intermediate or advanced BD made people suffer and not all of them lost data.

I have set my sytem to quarantine files and I am not a newbie. All my applications were getting quarantined and i Couldn't do anything with my sytem. The same thing happened with my friend, all his apps got quarantined and he couldn't use his webcam or his streaming app. Setting BD or any other AV app to auto delete is not a good idea but that is not the reason for this disaster. Backups and altering settings are different issues altogether. Keep it separate from this issue.
It would have been a lot better if you had advised people to be careful in the future but what you did and are still doing is ridiculing people or forcing the blame for this issue at least partly on them. All i asked was to treat people with respect instead of questioning them FBI style as if they were the cause of this fake alert. This is absolutely clear no matter how hard you try to get away, many people have been really angered by your responses. It is pretty clear and they have a reason. I do not blame you but i blame the BD team for allowing you to carry on with this nonsense.
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lorddraco
post Mar 22 2010, 09:27 PM
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Well .. I found it is an HUGE negligence and lack of quality control that contribute to this fiasco. I put my faith in BD product for more than 3 years. 1st year is 2 year subscription and last year renew for 3 years.

First of all.. the installation is not straight forward and I have myself have experience my problem installing it properly. Dont tell me I donno how to .. although I may not claim to be an expert here. Given such a software for majority of the user, the installation should be seamless and easy even for some basic user. But Not. That is history .. using BD 2009 which has ton of problems.

Secondly, I think this is not the first time of wrong detection.

Thirdly, as a software company and especially when their software touches the system files. It is extremely important to test fully before releasing the software. obviously... it does not test fully on x64 system.

This make me feel not trusting this company anymore... I just want a full refund and have decided to switch to other.

Doing backup or not is not the point here. The point is BD did make a big problem and cause lots of pain. Not all user out there are savvy enough to do backup, partition the disk to have data sitting in another partition and etc.

Plus default system OS is not easy to recover. Even it is recovered, there may have lots of break and software reinstallation. Without the more savvy folk to help... there means many working hour loss for folks that relies on PC/Notebook on their work and $$$.

Instead of protecting the user pc/notebook from malware and virus, BD now become the malware and virus wiping out people system drive.

I am very very unhappy user.
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L.o.D.
post Mar 22 2010, 09:35 PM
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pvp, newbies will use default settings. They won't go into advanced settings to change things when they have no idea what they do etc.
Having files go to quarantine is a default setting.

I questioned why people were changing that setting to delete & then you stated it was not the users responsibility when changing that setting, which is false.

There you go yet again trying to make it out that I blame the user for the BD screw up.
I NEVER SAID THAT EVER.

I only put responsibility on the user for changing any settings and the lack of backups for important data.
Why people would not do that if that data is so important is beyond me.

That does not mean that it takes away the responsibility from BD for this fiasco!
But you seem adamnant that it does when it was never stated by anyone.

This post has been edited by L.o.D.: Mar 22 2010, 09:40 PM
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lorddraco
post Mar 22 2010, 09:44 PM
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latest update. even after patching as per recommended and update via automatic update.

I still got the same problem.

Guess I just have to uninstall BD totally... it really make my day... 4:45 am in my country now and I still cannot fixed the problem.
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TheBigPJ
post Mar 22 2010, 09:45 PM
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L.o.D. are you an employee or affliated with BitDefender in any way? Beyond that of just using there software?
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